Attack #2 LOL

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Attack #2 LOL

Postby gizmonel » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:50 am

Had to re-register so i can login

HELP i just got attacked by Lilo.

Here is situation, he was in his cage i opened the door. I use a mister bottle to help clean the cage better and i also use another mister to shower him well the moment he saw the mister he went wild and attacked my hand when i picked him up of course i panicked (bad me) i swore and got nervous as a chunk of my hand got in the way.

I managed to pick him up with a stick (maybe its a good idea to stick train him LOL)

Should i get rid of the mister bottles?

Has he lost trust in me?

He is eating right now and i will get him up on his play stand soon.

I do spend time with him as he is on his stand most of day when i am here working we do cuddle a few times a week i love him so much but right now i am not as i used to be with when he was a baby and cuddle him continuously.

Will keep you posted.
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:28 am

Nelson,

Also remember that it is spring and hormones start picking up in spring and summer. So, the male greys may be a little more aggressive. Also, sometimes they get territorial about their cages. So, you may have had a combination of that.

I always think stick training is important, especially for periods like this. My Merlin is territorial about her sleeping cage, so I get bites a lot in the AM. So, I get her out with a stick. But she HATES sticks because when I was first learning, my hand would jerk when she got off the stick and the end would tap up onto her bottom. So, I finally learned to place the tip of the stick under something like a perch when she is stepping down and so the stick doesn't jerk upward. But I have also learned to hold the stick with the right hand and wrap my left hand in a small towel....place the left in front of the right to protect the right with the towel, so that she cannot attack "the hand that is holding the stick." But I am THANKFUL my girls are stick trained!

Lilo is a little older and he probably doesn't like a lot of cuddling anymore either. But I'm sure he loves it when he gets it. I don't think he's lost trust in you. Is he "afraid" of the mister everyday or just this one time? Again, this may have been a territorial reaction to you.

Birds DO bite...and sometimes they are more aggressive than other times. When you approach the cage, read his body language so that you can avoid the big bite. I cannot tell you how many times I was bitten in all the years of learning to read and work with my girls. They still do bite every once in a while. Pea does when I'm uptight and they both do when they are angry at me. The key is to learn to read the body language and learn a few tricks that help you handle it without getting too hurt.

Hoping this helps,
Maggie-
Maggie
 

Postby gizmonel » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:42 am

Maggie thanks for the reminder its spring, sure does not feel like it here LOL is snowing hehehe.

Yesterday and today has been back to normal and no more attaks guess he had a bad hair day that time ROFL. :D

Sometimes he is afraid of the mister but i mush him into getting mists any ways, as for the cuddling he seems to love just being here with me my mom thinks he can be cuddled all the time but truth is he doesnt want to be and sometimes she tells me to do it constantly.

Lilo is a grown bird LOL, and really wants his independane and i accept that he is a big boy now hehehe so he does get little cuddling here and there.

I have not misted him in two days because work schedule and two 13 hour shifts.

I will work on his body language.

Thanks again Maggie
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie- » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:14 pm

You are welcome. The fear of the spray mist may be due to the way you are using it. Go slowly at him......keep it below his eye level (above can make them unconsciously feel it is predatory, since most predators attack from above). Also, treat it as FUN and as a game. Laugh and be playful with it.

Hoping this helps,
Mag-
Maggie-
 

Postby Guest » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:07 pm

Maggie i have not used the spray mist on Lilo in one week, some days he is the nicest grey but some days he is the meanest with very ruffled feathers if i approach him he ruffles more and lash's out. I have found a stick and am in process of training him on it.

Does this spring thing last this long? I remember previous springs were not this bad but then again he was younger, he is between 4 and 5 tears old now.

I am worried this may go into mid may when we go on vacation for two weeks.

HELP!
Guest
 

Postby gizmonel » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:08 pm

Maggie i have not used the spray mist on Lilo in one week, some days he is the nicest grey but some days he is the meanest with very ruffled feathers if i approach him he ruffles more and lash's out. I have found a stick and am in process of training him on it.

Does this spring thing last this long? I remember previous springs were not this bad but then again he was younger, he is between 4 and 5 tears old now.

I am worried this may go into mid may when we go on vacation for two weeks.

HELP!
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:54 am

Hi Nelson,

4-5 years is when Greys begin to enter their sexual maturing period. So, this is his first year reacting to those hormones.

Give him plenty of things he can tear up and chew. Don't leave anything that could be a nest in the cage or he'll be more aggressive. They do become more territorial around their cages (their nests). So, you may try getting him on a perch, away from his cage and usual territory. He will be calmer there. It is natural to become territorial and aggressive there as they use these hormones in the wild to protect their nests. Just realize this is what he's doing.

Please analyze when he attacks you. What are you doing? What activity is going on? Then think how to avoid the activity or change things. For example, if he bites at you when you put your hand in the cage....let him climb out and then pick him up. You need to observe and then think about how you can change things.

BUT having him away from the cage when you want to be with him will help a lot. The stick will also help loads.

Previous Springs he was a "baby." Now he has matured into a young sensual & sexual being. So, it makes sense that this year is hard. It is one of the first years into the sexually maturing period.

Greys are like humans. Most of them don't like to cuddle either as they did as babies, except if they are mates. So, please let go of your guilt about how you treated him in the past. You have a wonderful mature mutual love now too.

Again, work on the stick training and move his perch in a different area that does not seem like his territory. Watch his body behavior. When the feathers go up, don't bother with him.

Keep us posted.
Maggie-
Maggie
 

Postby gizmonel » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:33 am

Maggie i am frustrated, Lilo is very unpredictable and i am worried now.

I tried to get him stick trained but he attacks the stick and goes nuts, i try and push stick and he just gets more wild LOL.

I leave him alone after, when i go back he is calling my name (no ruffles) the minute i put my hand to his chest he does do anything until he goes CRUNCH and i pull away and bleed. Even with stick its hard for him to come on it without hurting himself and flapping.

He has a chew toy in his cage he loves, usually when he attacks me he is just sitting on perch i am generally not afraid of him but bitten 10 times made me fear his BITE LOL. my reaction is CURSING to myself then he repeats it LOL, when i do let him out of cage things dont change much LOL.

How can i get him not to attack stick and not go nuts and fall?

ok when feathers go up dont bother him GOTCHA BUDDY MAGGIE even though thats hard to do i will try it, thing is he can put feathers up when i have him in my hand and i get pecked at LOL

I need help badly i go on vacation may 10th LOL
gizmonel
 
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby gizmonel » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:24 am

Kicking screaming like a teenager LOL.

OK yesterday i left Lilo alone and did not clean his cage but today it was filthy so i had no choice but to try.

This is what i did:

- Let him come out of cage alone.
- Approached him with the stick and he refused.
- I backed off and said good boy and tried once more.
-- After about the 8th try he came on stick.
- i put him on his purch and cleaned his cage and gave him fresh food and water.
- Once i finished cleaning cage i approached him again with stick.
went well until he flew off it and ran for dear life screeming and flapping.
- I followed him but he was running so i approached him with stick and he screeched like there was no tomorrow and jumped stick but i did not give up, he finally stepped on stick and now is in cage.

Will this stick training get easier Maggie? My baby has gone wild LOL, most of time when i approach him his feathers are WAY UP then he calls me Nelson come here like a little tease AND I FALL FOR IT! THEN CRUNCH BUT NOT ANY MORE lol

Thanks Maggie
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie- » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:27 pm

Nelson,

First, when Lilo is "running away" from you, especially on the ground, do not chase after him. It can make him so terrified that he may go phobic. This especially happens with male greys because we have not raised them as they were raised by wild parents. So, in the future, if he runs away like that, WAIT. Wait until he is settled wherever he is and then approach him. Wait until he has settled and is turned around facing you.

What made him fly off the stick? How are you holding it? It sounds like he is a little insecure of the stick. You may want to do practice sessions with him. You get him to sit quietly on the stick as you hold it quietly while you are sitting down.

But if he is really terrified of it, do not use it. Many greys need to feel comfortable with the stick, so the first step is to introduce it as a toy and let them get used to it and playing with it. Only you can know the depth of Lilo's feelings about the stick. It sounds like he is handling the stick fine....until whatever scared him off of it. Again, is it the way you are holding it? Perhaps it should be a little closer to your body so he feels more secure that it won't wobble and he's stuck out there in the breeze.

You need to analyze every detail of what is going on. For example, when my Merlin was a baby, she used to clamp her beak onto my thumb to get onto my hand. She did this because she was nervous about getting on. I did not know that and it hurt...so I would try to pull away and it became a bite and then escalated. Had I analyzed and realized her insecurity, this big problem would never have grown. So, watch every detail between the two of you.

Also, watch your thoughts. They read our minds. If you see him jumping off the stick or see yourself bitten, Lilo will act it out. Always with him, place a picture in your mind of Lilo doing what you want and perfectly behaved. Also, work with him a lot AWAY from his cage....away from his territory.

Again, if he is terrified of the stick, do not use it. But if he's terrified of falling off the stick, look at how you are handling it and how you can hold it to feel more steady.

Keep me posted,
Maggie-
Maggie-
 

Postby gizmonel » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:28 am

Maggie i am starting to fear him, not for his bites but for what may happen. I know this sounds crazy.

I am trying to be positive and cautious at same time, it seems that he does not like stick too much.

OK i will stop running after him LOL, also do you suggest keeping stick visible somewhere near the cage so he sees its no harm?

I went up to him now and he had no feathers up i was going to say step up but i fear he will bite my finger i know this is bad thinking.

GRRRRRRRRR he is spending more time in cage then outside and i am sad because of that.

My mom says i got no patience and i should persist more with Lilo but i also think thats just as bad because forcing is no good either is it?

It's 9:30pm and i will try tomorrow again. I hope he doesnt stay like this Maggie will he hate me?
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby gizmonel » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:43 pm

OK this morning i woke up and went down to clean his cage, immediately as i approached his feathers went up so i got the stick. Appereantly he fears stick.

When he went on floor i did not follow him i let him cool down first then approached him he then stepped on to my hand with no problems.

I cleaned cage, and went to pick him up and his feathers went up.

Whenever i approach his cage he goes wild trying to attack me, i dont put hand in cage as i will get bitten and now with no stick as he screams when he sees it i dont know what else to do.

I open cage door to see if he comes out and he doesnt come out, and i cant use stick whats one to do?

HELP!
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie- » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:46 pm

Hi Nelson,

If Lilo is afraid of the stick, stop using it.

As we discussed by phone, let Lilo climb to the top of his cage and then roll his playpen perch over for him to climb onto. Then move it away, slowly and then pick him up. He may be afraid of the moving motion when you move it away from the cage, so do it slowly AND with assurances. "It's okay, Lilo. Lilo safe!" If he is afraid, move it at a snail's pace or leave it alone for awhile and then move it slowly later. It all depends on his temperment and reactions.

Congrats on not chasing him on the floor. He will easily get on your hand from the floor. That is very good. You may want to use the floor to help you work with Lilo. When you can set some time for this, sit with Lilo on the floor (away from the cage) and practice having him get onto..stay on...and getting off your hand. This will help him develop more trust towards your hand.

Whenever you want Lilo to come out of something and he won't, get his favorite treat and put it where you want him to go. This may make him move his booty.

As a matter of fact, and if you haven't, you need to identify Lilo's FAVORITE TREAT. Whatever it is, do NOT serve it in his bowl or cage or play area. Save it to be given by your hand only. Break it into bits: ie...break a cashew into pieces or bits...or peanuts...or use one sunflowewr seed at a time. When he is good or when you want him to get onto your hand, use the treat. For example, when you are with him by the playpen or on the floor, offer a treat bit. Put the back of your hand out there for him to get on. Then hold a treat bit in your left hand closer to your body. Lilo will have to "climb onto" your hand to get the treat bit.

Once you have him trained, knowing he will get a treat bit when he politely gets on your hand, you are ready to use it for the cage. When you want him to get onto your hand from the cage, let him climb up to top of cage. Then put your right hand out, say UP and hold your left hand (with bit in it) closer to your body so he can see it. Give him the treat the MOMENT he gets onto your hand. "Good boy!!!"

When you are not trying to get him off the cage, spend time sitting on the floor, below the cage. Keep your eyes downcast and talk to him. Tell how wonderful he is and so on, and give him a treat bit every once in a while so he gets comfortable with your hands again.

Most importantly, do NOT give up. Call me any time.

GREY'T Blessings,
Maggie-
Maggie-
 

Postby gizmonel » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:52 am

Maggie thanks for advice. :D

OK i did put the playpen near his cage, opened the door and sweet talked him all throughout he had feathers up so i thought i would get him a peanut, once he saw peanut feathers went down and he said YUM! LOL.

I saw him calm in cage so i went over and said step up (he wont go on playpen) as i put my back of hand he bit me again (i did not say anything just soaked it in to not alarm him) its bleeding now and my finger has two of his bite marks LOL.

I approached him not afraid of him but got same reaction, my mom said that my dad got mad at him few days back last week when he didnt kiss him so he tapped lilo on head not sure if this is playing a role or not.

If i cant use stick and he wont come out how on earth am i to clean his cage?

I think this is not only about hormones LOL, also if i am taking lilo in to a parrot sitter how is this person going to take care of him if she doesnt know him? Next two weeks will be interesting we leave may 11th.

Thanks Maggie!
gizmonel
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:49 am

Postby Maggie- » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:03 pm

Hi Nelson,

First of all, he will act differently with the sitter. If he will be at her house, it is in a new territory. When they are in new territories, their behavior is not as aggressive. But you need to introduce Lilo to the sitter before you go away. I have written extensively about that. Before the time to go, please take Lilo over there to meet the sitter and let her spend some time with him while you are doing errands or something. You need to do something like this because some Greys have turned phobic after feeling "abandoned" with a sitter, unless you have them reassured that you are coming back. Is this the first time you have left him? Also, when you are gone, I suggest that you call the sitter daily to talk to Lilo over the phone to tell him he's okay and you'll be back soon.

Your father's tapping him on the head probably has a lot to do with this problem. He is probably quite nervous about hands now. Please ask your father NOT to do that again. It only makes things worse.

When you ask Lilo to get onto your hand, do you do any diversionary tactics to stop the bite? Next time you put the hand up, hold a hand towel or pot holder in your left hand down below .....off to the side...but so Lilo can see it. It distracts his attention and then you can scoop your hand under his breast to get him to step up. Do you try things like that? Get him a peanut. Put it in his beak. Then get him to step up. He can't bite if he is holding something in his beak. There are all kinds of diversions you can do to help him.

The play pen thing will probably not work the first few times. But keep working at it. Put the peanut that he loves ON the playpen perch. He'll have to climb onto the perch to get the nut. Be inventive and think thru how you can outsmart him and get him away so you can clean.

If the biting persists, I suggest that you find someone that lives near you who is very good with parrots. Bring that person into your home to help you figure what is going on in the family to trigger Lilo's bites and develop strategies to change them. If there is a local avian behavior consultant, that's great. But if not, you may ask for someone who is very good with birds to help, someone perhaps from the bird club, bird store or vet office, or a friend. This may help you some. It is hard to help from just writing.

Hang in there. It WILL get better!

GREY'T Blessings,
Maggie-

PS: If you need to talk, please call again.
Maggie-
 


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