Luna has hurt her foot after a terrible nail dremmel job

[allie]

Hi Maggie,

It seems we only check in when we have trouble, but it's so nice to know you're here! Luna, my adopted TAG, went in for a beak dremmel a week and a half ago to correct overgrowth on one side caused by misalignment of her beak.

While there I told both the vet and the vet student that I did NOT want her nails dremmeled too because she was gripping fine and never slipping and they were fine. Well he dremmeled them, and then I think, let the student do them (we didn't go back with her because he prefers not ot have your bird link you with the bad experience) because 6 of them were dremmeled to the nub, no exaggeration. It has been horrific. I even called to complain. She's been slipping and falling and having a terrible time getting around since then, just when she had become confident enough to start climbing around and landing on her free hanging rope comfortably. She can't' do any of these things now.

Well, two days ago, I started to notice that she was ALWAYS resting the right foot and not resting both equally. So I began to check closely and noticed that she was not gripping with the toe on the back of the right foot. It was just sticking out straight. And when I held her I could feel her putting her weight on her left foot and barely on the right. There was litttle more warmth on the right too, but not much.

She did rest the left foot once that day that I noticed and she did eat standing on the right (she's left-footed).

Today she's been wobbly when she rests the left foot and has to stand on the right. She's not climbing about. It looks as if both feet are sore now because she's been standing on the left so much to spare the right.

She is walking on it, and will scratch with it and lift it to preen around it. She is eating fine and talking to me, but there is certainly something wrong. She was horribly off-balance today, worse than she's been since the dremmel and was losing her balance even when trying to turn on a perch or spread her poor wings.

I had padded the cage bottom and took her twice today to rest her feet on the couch on fleece. I moved some booda perches around so that she wouldn't have to gingerly climb down the wire to her food and water, but she refuses to use my new routes and I wince everytime I see her painfully, slowly grip and pull like heck with her beak to lift herself up the wire.

I don't want to rush her right back to the vet. I'd like to hear some experience from you and others with bird experience first. I mean, if it's a sprained toe from landing and clinging to the venetian blind strings (since she can't do her usual grip of the wood slats with her talons and beak) it doesn't seem like the vet could help anyway. What would they do for a broken toe? Anesthetize her, x-ray her and tell me they can't fix it? (I have a bad taste in my mouth because I think the vet dremmeled her nails just to give the student some experience even though I asked not to).

What should I be looking for, how soon would a sprain heal, what do they do for broken or injured feet or toes in birds since, like horses, they have to stand on them all day?

I am monitoring her weight daily. It was down several grams this morning, but I can't worry about that yet since her weight does normally fluctuate a bit.

I can't see any obvious swelling, but Im no vet. She looks like she's having trouble standing her full weight on that leg, like when she stretches the opposite wing and foot (the ballerina pose), her right leg is not fully extended, it's bent a bit like it can't hold her up all the way.

My poor baby, I have shed many sad and angry tears at what that nail dremmel did, and now we have an injury on top of the loss of confidence and trust in me.

She let loose such a screeching growl, Maggie, when she saw that vet last week, remembering him from the last beak dremmel only 3 months prior, that I thought, "she can't come back here anytime soon; she is so stressed out and terrified by this man now." I know those procedures are so painful. I'm scared that if I brought her back to see him again, she' collapse. She's so poorly socialized to begin with.

Help! Have your birds ever had any foot injuries? What would you advise me to be aware of when I talk to the vet? Can they do anything for broken toes? I don't guess the leg is broken.

We'd also have to drive one hour with her having to support herself on bumpy roads on those tired and painful feet.

Thanks for reading my worried ramble, Maggie. Luna and I were doing so welll, and now it's gone so bad. I was already gonna write to ask for ways of keeping her beak growth down because I thought, "no way we are doing this every 3 months for the rest of our lives."

I can't change vets. The vet school is the only clinic taking new patients with an avian boarded vet within 120 miles.

Allie and Luna

[Maggie-]

Allie,

I'm SO sorry to hear about Luna's troubles. You need to call the vet and LAMBAST him. I would describe the problem and ASK what they would do to help her.

I understand no other vets take in patients close to you. But if I were you, I would call around anyway and plead someone else to take you guys in. You don't want Luna to have to go through that trauma again. She would freak. Sometimes vets are unbelievable and mess things up.

My Merlin has sensitive feet. Sometimes her nails have bled THE NEXT DAY after a clip. So, I only allow her to be filed. I try to put up with sharp nails for as long as possible.

I've been wondering the same thing about a lengthening beak. Get Luna to chew lots of wood.

I ask anyone reading these posts who have experience with these vet issues.....chime in with your thoughts, please.

Merlin also had a bad limp for a while and we never figured what it was. It finally went away....

How does it look? Does it look sprained? Or does anything look broken? If broken, you've GOT to find someone to help her.

Please go to the following article. It may have more ideas to help you with the temporary clumsiness. You may want to lower perches as much as possible for now:
http://www.africangreys.com/articles/ot ... siness.htm

Do not worry about the weight. Weight is usually much lighter in the AM because their bodies are empty, so to speak. You have to weigh the same time every day.

Sorry it took me a few days to post. There are so few posts that I got lazy about checking.

The key thing with Luna now is to keep praising her and try to keep things as padded as possible and low as possible, without making her nervous about "NEW" things in the cage.

This TOO shall pass and you guys will get back to where you were. I would TRY to find another vet. If you have to go to these, I would be very demanding and threaten to tell the world about them if they screw up one more time. It is disgusting that they did this to this poor bird. How many others are they screwing up?????

Love,
Maggie-

PS: I would DEMAND that someone qualified from the vet come to your home to check out Luna. They screwed up. They should come and check her. You should not have to take her in again. I would be very demanding about this. My two cents!

[allie]

Maggie,

thanks. I've got an IV in my arm andd am attached to a scary IV pole as of this afternoon just to throw more madness into the equation. Tried keeping her on fleece on the couch. No apparent break. Poor girl hardly ate today because she won't on the couch and now home health nurses coming and going.

Will write later.

alison

[Maggie-]

Allie,

When it rains, it pours.

In situations like this, give her what she will eat. If she loves sunflower seeds, let her have them. It is better to get something in her while your entire household calms down, even if it is not the best of food.

Please let us know how you are!
Maggie-

[allie]

Maggie,

Hi, phew, it's been such bad timing here. I am now on IV fluids every other day, my entire family has left for the Easter Holidays and won't return until Monday night. Luna is exasperated at how I am treating her.

I last spoke with a resident in Exotics? or a boarded Exotics vet at the vet school, as the vet responsible for over=dremmeling Luna did not return my call, but had her do it instead. The vet issue is a non-issue because I can't get in with the only other boarded avian vet in a 120 mile radius. He won't take new patients.

The Exotics vet last told me that if there is no swelling, it's probably a sprain, but of course she can't be sure without seeing her. She told me when I thought I saw swelling later where the toes connect that I should keep her on absolutely flat surfaces, even if this means putting her in a Rubbermaid container to keep her from clinging to cage wire or flying off my bed and landing badly.

What do you think? I know I will have to at some point when the home healht people return, but it sounds horrid! I can't imagine her terror and feelings of abandonment if I, the only person who's ever been kind to her, put her in a Rubbermaid storage bin with a top on with holes in it.

She has been such a good bird for 2 days, staying on her table padded with fleece and covered in toys, against a window, and toys hangin from blinds. But today she lost her patience and flew. If I leave her in her cage she will NOT stay off the cage wire.

Right now, I'm trying to transport her on a flat hand from bed, to couch where the aquarium she loves is, and back to table. AT night I decided to put her straight onto her sleeping perch and cover her immediately to prevent climbing. Then as soon as I awoke her this morning I had to take her out, she bit me. It WAS so rude of me. I never force myself on her like that but i had to gether out before she climbed around.

Now I'm wondering if I should go through the hell of taking on a one hour drive back to the very vet who gave her so much dremmel pain. Do greys ever just die of horror and fear and stress at such moments. I'm scared she might when he restrained her again to check her foot! Is this silly of me?

Right now I'm not sure how much they would actually do even if there was a fracture or sprain. ARgh....I don't even know if it's getting better because I can't put her anywhere where she climbs. She does seem to be holding htat right foot up alot still, and when she must rely on she sits on the leg rather than on theh foot.

The vet sent anti-inflammatories in the mail for us which was nice, but I cant' get them because my family left with the keys!!

Do you know of anyone who has dealt with a foot injury of any kind and how they dealt with the vet and how the vet handled the situation? I'm worried they may want to do things that aren't neccessary. I'm also worried about my girl being permanently handicapped by an injury. A lot of stuff out there says they have to just heal on their own. Some things say tape, some say surgery. I don't even know. She may just be severely sprained from a vet student forcing her toes out for the dremmel.

What do you think about the rubbermaid container? I have a 75g aquarium that would fit on my table if we require a long term recovery.

Alison

[Maggie-]

Allie,

Many vets DO do more than they should. Please do NOT take her back there any time soon. Birds CAN die of fear and shock. You are better off working it out with her at home.

Do you have a travel carrier that you transport her in? Does that have a flat bottom and/or low perch? If so, why don't you let her hang in there with a few toys and food. The positive is that it is familiar to her. The rubbermaid could scare her because she has never seen it before. You would need to get her used to the container before putting her in.

Anyway, whichever container you use, then place her near your bed and talk to her a lot. Sing and laugh.....turn your time together into a fun game. Tell her she's okay and how much you love her. It is ALL in the attitude.

Mostly, be calm and positive. If you get nervous, she will pick up on it and get nervous too...although she may not understand WHY. And that makes it worse for her.

The acquarium could work too. The key is to help her become a little used to it before having to be in it. Couldn't her travel carrier work, at least for short time while you are trying to get her used to the other "scarier unknown" containers???

Maggie-

[Maggie-]

Allie,

PLEASE let us know how you and Luna are doing!

Hugs,
Maggie-

[allie]

Hi Maggie,

Thanks for your support during this difficult time. It was kind of the resident or the Exotics vet at the school to mail us some anti-inflammatories. I'm yet to see them in the mail for unknown reasons.

I'm just angry that the Avian vet, who dremmeled her nails despite my asking him not to (surely to get the chance to teach his student that day) is now not returning my phone calls. I called once, told him my situation (IV line, no transportation) and he got the Exotics vet to call me. I called today and neither has called me back. You'd think that at a vet school, where they aren't profit centered, someone would help me out in this situation.

I just would like to ask: If she can stand on the right foot alone, scratch with it, perch on it, and hold large objects with it (seems to have trouble with the dexterity required for smaller objects), then can we say it isn't fractured or broken? I can't see any bruising, but then, again I can't see under her feathers on her leg.

She really wants to perch, but that's just Luna, the bird that has always hated being on flat surfaces or on the ground. So far, we're spending days on the play table with lots of new foods and toys, and nights on her large broad perch in her own safe cage. She wags her tail when I return her to that perch at night. She really needs this security as her world has been turned upside down.

The only thing I can see is that the Right foot looks a little bit puffier or wrinkled where the toes join than the other foot does. No toes are swollen. Leg isn't swollen. Today I thought, she may be better because she kept going over to her water bowl and perching on it on the table! She slept that way on her Left foot for an hour! But she did cling with her Right foot too (the injured one).

We had a few unfortunate incidents where she got plain tired of the table and flew, so now I've resorted to moving her around during the day to different places, bed, side of the bathtub while I bathe (what a good rehomed girl she was to do this for the first time), couch to watch the fish.

I know having her stepup for me is probably not good if she needs to be flat footed but I try to turn my hand flat or have her perch on my arm. She's being really great considering she's a grey and her whole world and routine is gone, replaced by a not so pleasant one. I did see one mutilated feather after she had been preening, or maybe "pruning" but I hope that doesn't progress because she's never picked before.

Now I need to know how long to do this to her, you know? I don't want to subject her to X-rays and handling by students or residents, but I also don't know how long to keep her this way. I wonder if the sprain has healed or if there's still a fracture she's learning to live with. She does hold that foot up primarily. But she did put more weight on it when I held her, and it's not warm anymore.

Been trying to read about what vet's do for fractures and breaks, and some just tape, while others do surgery! My cousin is a wildlife biologist for State Wildlife and Fisheries and said that she's taped many a wild bird's foot for rehab, but she's also caught and banded many birds in the wild with crooked toes, in other words, they heal up on their own, just crooked. She agreed that the stress would be too much for her right now?

Do African Greys ever die during restraint? I read about one woman's grey who died during a beak dremmel. It was only 5 years old! Luna would have to travel one hour and go through x-rays surely because I dont' even think the Avian boarded vet at the school will see us now. If she saw him again, I can't imagine how freaked out she'd be with the dremmel incident just 2 and a half weeks gone. Of course, I'm sure she knows where she is, even if he didn't handle her.

I have begged the other avian boarded vet in the city to take us but no results.

I have my last IV infusion tomorrow. My family returns tonight. So I will have more help, thank God, because it's been really hard chasing after her and sitting up since she seems to only be happy and playing if I sit with her at the table! I can't do that for very long! She does play some every day though, a good sign. Poops are normal. Her weight is going up a tad, little bugger! She's playing me for treats and not eating her Harrison's. And I was worried she was losing weight!

I guess if I had a nice vet nearby, ready to see her to correct the mistake he or his student made that caused this misfortune, It'd be easy sailing. Just dont' quite know what to do now. Thanks Maggie for being a good "listener!" With no family here, and they don't care about her anyway, well, I just need a sounding board. I'm glad to hear that I;m not wimp about the Rubbermaid container! I just couldn't do it!

At some point I have to decide though, do we go back for a final word (sooner rather than later if there's a fracture) or just wait it out here. I wish they'd just call me back and let me describe it to them, and maybe they could tell me themselves if I needed to return or not!!! Arghh!

Allie and Luna

[allie]

Good news Maggie,

I had to reply right away after bad-mouthing the people at the vet school. I'm still very displeased that the only Avian vet available within a 120 mile radius was responsible indirectly for this disaster, yet has NOT returned my calls.

Anyway, the Exotics vet (or resident? fingers crossed that she's boarded) DID finally call me back at 7:30pm! She was very nice and did just what I said I needed. She listened to my description of Luna's foot, and how she is using it or not using it, and told me not to worry, that she felt fairly certain (disclaimer here that she had not actually SEEN Luna) that this was not a fracture or a break, and was a nerve or soft tissue injury that needed about another week or so of flat surfaces and anti-inflammatories (which she assured me would be here tomorrow) to get better.

So I am very relieved. I am also very exhausted from trying to keep such an independant and intelligent animal happy in this situation and keeping her from flying. I am tempted, for my own health, to get someone to bring up my empty 75g aquarium which would fit well against the window, and put hardware cloth over the top. I could hang toys, she would have a great view, could see me anywhere in the room, and would have room to fully stretch her wings, and waddle about shredding things.

What do you think? If I introduced her to it as happily and slowly as possible?

Exhausted Allie----one more day of IV, phew

[Maggie-]

Allie,

It all depends on Luna. If you are calm and introduce it to her slowly, maybe she will take to it quickly. Just remember that they generally are afraid of things they are not familiar with. Please make sure that there is nothing toxic that could harm her or her breathing and so on. But I know you are very careful.

Great news about the vet discussion!

PLEASE keep us posted!

GREY'T Blessings,
Maggie-

[allie]

HI Maggie,

This is a bit of a conflicted post. Luna did so well and was so quiet and calm yesterday, took her anti-inflammatory, and I was so pleased and relieved when I put her to bed, that I thought, "ok, maybe we can get by without the aquarium."

Well, she was resting calmly on my bed just now and the cat jumped up behind us and she FLEW. Well, she landed on top of my aquarium light housing! That is, she landed on a horizontal surface on flat feet and came to a complete stop for the first time ever! I don't know if you remember, but she's the TAG that never fledged and has a terrible time crashing into things and finally resorted to landing hanging from my venetian blinds.

So on the one hand I'm so thrilled she landed in such a controlled manner, on the other hand it was exactly what the vet said could ruin her injured foot. So I'm trying to get someone to make a screen top pronto for the aquarium.

She is starting to pick away the skin on her legs. I'm worried and feel torn here. Do I risk her filght and leave her less stressed, or do I increase her stress with the aquarium, risk self-mutilation, and allow the foot to heal just as the vet recommended? It's a hard decision.

She has always obsessivley preened and done normal picking of dead skin on her feet and legs. But now her left leg is pink and bare on the front. I've read that this can become very serious.

Alison

[Maggie-]

I would let her calm down for a few days before the acquarium move. Keep kitty at a distance, if you can.

Poor babY!! She's going through a horrible time!

Try to keep her very calmed today.
Mag-