Clipping nails on a phobic grey.

[Grayguy]

Hi Maggie,

I chatted with you regarding my phobic grey, Cosmo, this past week on Toolady.com and decided to ask another question of you to get your opinion.

As you may remember, Cosmo has a phobia of hands, and we're working to ease him thru it. My wife and I have been the only people to trim his nails, besides the breeder when he first came home with us almost 2 years ago. Cosmo's nails are getting sharp again, and I'm wondering, do you think we are doing harm by cutting his nails ourselves? I have read that hiding the bird's face in a towel while cutting may prevent resentment toward the people doing the cutting. We have always used a towel, and have been shielding his vision pretty well for the majority of the past year while cutting. I have read that birds typically hold resentment toward the towel, and not the humans holding the towel.

In your opinion, should we be continuing to trim Cosmo's nails ourselves, given his hand phobia? Or must we take him somewhere to have it done? We're working hard to earn back his trust.

Thanks again for your help and guidance,
Greyguy

[Maggie]

Hi!

Personally, I would have someone else do it for a while. It would be very hard to build the trust with the same hands that do the clipping. Whenever you do, leave the room so that you are not associated with being the "predatory clipper."

Good luck! Is any of the info on this board helpful yet?

I believe that the key concept here for you is to work on what he is most afraid of in a place where he feels the most safe. That means, when you work on getting him more accustomed to your hands, to do it while he is in his cage and not out. When he is relaxed with that, then you can work on the hands outside the cage. Again, the treat strategy can really work.

GREY'T Blessings,
Maggie-

[Grayguy]

Thanks Maggie,

I haven't had a chance to look everything over at your site, yet, but what I've found so far has been very interesting.

I'll try working in the cage with him, but the strange thing is, he seems the most nervous when I go into the cage. Once outside, he seems a little more calm. His biggest trouble is going into the cage for him, with a close second being putting him back inside. He gets extremely anxious at those times, and does the most harm to himself if I try to go near him while he is inside. Once the door is closed with him inside, he relaxes immediately. I was taught not to allow Cosmo to get away with anything that I didn't want him to do, or else it would become a habit with him. This meant I had to force him come out if I gave him the "up" command when trying to get him out of the cage. So when he began to give me a hard time, I used to force him out of the cage, even if it meant chasing him around the inside to get ahold of him and pull him out. The logic was that if he was eventually removed from the cage every time I asked, even if he resisted, he would eventually give in and follow the command every time, knowing that his resistance would be of no use. I believe this may be why he is having such a hard time with me now in the cage.

Obviously I do not force him any more. I just wait for him to come out to me. But he is still very anxious. So I think working outside the cage will be more to my advantage in this case. Let me know if you believe otherwise.

Thanks again for your opinions and advise.
Greyguy

[Guest]

Hi Greyguy,

I think that "control" thing that was taught many parrot owners in the 90's has proven harmful to the relationships with many Greys.

I did not mean for you to put your hand IN his cage. I was saying that the cage is the place where Cosmo feels the most safe (with door closed) because it is his territory. So, it may help for you to sit beside the cage with the door closed and work with him from there. First start by talking to him and telling him how special he is and that you love him....and giving pieces of treat to him thru cage bars. Whenever he becomes comfortable enough to bow his head, while he is in the safety of HIS locked cage, then you could scritch his head with your fingers from outside the cage. This will begin to help him see hands/fingers from a more positive perspective.

So, you could use that as an introduction back to getting him used to your hands again. When he is away from the cage, do not try to get him used to the hands yet. I know you have to pick him up for transport. Is he stick trained?

Maggie-

[Grayguy]

Sorry it took me so long to reply...we were getting in touch with Cosmo's African roots by suffering thru the Midwest heat without A/C waiting for a repair to our A/C unit!!! Needless to say, Cosmo did much better than I did.

Anyway, thank you for the clarification. I'm sure we probably would have much more success working thru the bars, assuming that Cosmo comes close enough to the side to allow a scritch.

Cosmo is not stick trained, unfortunately. We were going to do that long ago, but he reacted so badly to the stick when we first introduced it that we decided not to continue. I believe that now would probably not be a good time to be working on other new things like stick training, so I guess we'll just have to keep up with what we're doing.

My wife and I had been saying how he seems like he's getting even worse this week. Then yesterday, my wife had been sitting with Cosmo when he decided that he was too scared to be near her any more and jumped off of her and would not come back. She didn't chase him, but allowed him to wander thru the house supervised. He walked into the bathroom (it's a happy place for him where he gets to whistle while the shower is running) and hid behind the toilet. My wife called me to help, and I laid down on the floor and called him. He immediately came out to me and crawled up my arm onto my shoulder. I gave him back to my wife, then met them at the couch 2 minutes later. She gave him back to me, and he was so relieved to see me (and mad at her) that he let me scritch him for as long as I cared to! I guess I was rewarded for not being "the bad guy" with "the honor" of being able to scritch him. It's pretty convienent how he can turn his phobia on and off.

When Cosmo and I have an "argument" he seems to favor my wife a bit more, at least for a short time. I think sometimes he is trying to train us not to test him by making us jealous of each other! It's funny how he can hold a grudge for a short time, as well as a phobia for a much longer time.

Well, thank you again for your input. If you feel strongly that we should exclusively work on the scritches thru the bars, then we can try. But as you can see, we do have breakthru's outside the cage. I am reluctant to warm him up with treats thru the bars, though, since the treats are how we have rewarding him for coming out of this cage. Maybe use a different treat? Anyway, let me know what you think.

Thanks again,
Greyguy

[Guest]

Greyguy,

No. Your system seems to be working pretty well.

The problem you had with the stick was that he was afraid of it. You need to first introduce the stick as a toy. Once it is accepted, then you can teach the bird to get on it.

It sounds like your relationship with Cosmo is getting better. There will be days when you feel like giving up...then he surprises you. But everything is going well, except for the hand issue.

But he does allow the scritches away from the cage. When he does, you may want to start a little "feet game" with him. For example, while scritching, tap his foot gently and make a "bop" sound. Then keep scratching...then lightly tap again and keep doing it every once in a while. Turn it into a game and this may get him used to having his "feet connect with the hands" in a gentle, non-threatening way.

The key is that it takes time. But it will be worth it!

Blessings,
Maggie-

[Guest]

Thanks again, Maggie. As I write now, Cosmo is with me, and we are sharing scritches for day 3 in a row! Probably just a short, lucky streak, but I'll take it!

I took your suggestion to try to "bop" his feet, but when I do, he gently grabs my finger with his beak and moves it toward the top of his head so I can get back to the scritches. But it doesn't startle him, anyway.

Well, I gotta go. He's trying to destroy the mouse on my computer!!! Thanks again. Talk to you soon. Keep up the great advice!

Grayguy

[Maggie]

Cool! He's NOT afraid of your hands being on his feet! Keep doing that for a few weeks, few months, whatever. The next step will be to try to "hold" one of the feet while you scritch him. You may want to lightly massage it. This is to help him be more comfy with the connection of the hands.

Blessings,
Maggie-